Last week after playing darts with coworkers, some of my group started hankering for Karaoke. We decided to go to Lucky Cheng's, which is dubbed "The Drag Queen Capital of the World." I had never been there before, but had heard good things about it. We walk in, and they haven't started Karaoke yet, and as we're waiting in the lobby area, one of the "ladyboy" hostesses looks at my coworker J and says, "You look familiar--don't I know you from somewhere?" which embarrasses him because this is the second time he's been out with coworkers where he's been mistaken as being gay. Then "she" looks at me and says, "Is this your boyfriend?" and we both say NO but she continues and says, "Because you know what they say about men who date Asian women..." and I sigh and nod and say, "Yes, I know what they say, but I find it insulting."
What I know she's getting at is that some people say that many gay men who are perhaps still in the closet date Asian women to cover up for the fact that they're gay. I know this because I had an incident with a gay friend of mine a few years ago--he made an offhand remark to another friend about how he thought my boyfriend at the time was gay because he was dating me. Needless to say, I had a talk with that friend. And then recently other friends have brought up the book Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenides which I own but have not yet read. Apparently, there's as passage in the book where he talks about this "phenomenon" as well. I have no idea if it is based at all in reality. And I'm not quite sure what the reasoning would be for this, perhaps that Asian women are seen as being "exotic" and desirable, so that if a man is seen with an Asian woman, then people will assume that they must be having sex with them. But this is just my guess.
So, as I said, I said to "her" that I found that generalization offensive, but she is oblivious to my protests and is putting on a show, has her whole routine going, and starts strutting around saying, "They walk around in Chelsea with an Asian woman on their arm, saying 'Look at me...I'm not gay! I have an Asian girlfriend!'" and she goes on and on, and I keep saying, "I find that offensive" but it falls on deaf ears and at one point she says, "And the Asian woman is okay with it, because she passive." And finally, what for me was the final straw, she says, "And the Asian girl is happy with it because she gets to say, 'Look at me, I'm with a white guy!'"
Argh. It's at this point I turn to my friends and say loudly, "Let's go somewhere else" and so we all leave. I don't look back.
Anyway, I managed to completely put the incident behind me that night, but the next morning I woke up for no reason at 5 am, remembered what happened, and got extremely angry.
The hostess happened to be black, which doesn't play a role in the incident at all, except for the fact that it frustrates me even more when one minority group is racist towards another. The fact that "she" belonged to two disenfranchised groups made the whole incident even more frustrating.
I keep wondering if I should have done more than just walk out, if in fact I was being passive in my reaction and actions. What do you think? What would you have done in my situation?
40 comments:
I actually thought of Middlesex when I started reading this post, specifically because of that part. It stuck out in my mind because, when I read it I thought, "huh...I've never heard that before." I found it kinda funny. Not funny-haha but funny-interesting on a sociological/scientific/race studies level.
But "putting society under the microscope" aside, I've gotta say, I would be pretty offended too. And I don't think you were being passive at all. You showed her you were pissed in one of the best ways possible...you took your business (and your money) elsewhere. That should send a clear message to anyone.
P.S. Middlesex was an AMAZING book on so many levels. Read it the next chance you get. I don't think you'll regret it. But now I am thinking about your last post about expectations, so on the other hand...nevermind, it was horrible. You should read it but only because it won a Pulitzer. You'll probably hate it. ;-)
Huh. I've never heard that before. I find it troubling and strange. I think you handled it well.
I'm going to ask around.
r
I'm glad you took your business away!!
(I just deleted an anecdote from this comment that wasn't that directly related to your post. Then I thought of an anecdote that does connect--to the hostess's comments. But it made me too angry to relate.)
Hmm....what would I have done, probably been too appalled to do constructive. Sometimes I can't talk when big things are happening.
I think you handled it well, but the fact is that you were still angry the next morning (who wouldn't be?). I think I might print out this post and send it to the bar....that doesn't take much effort on your part, and maybe the management would do something? Or, if you're not comfortable possibly being the recipient of hate calls and posts, print out the post but leave out the fact that it's a blog.
I wouldn't talk to them because that might only make you angrier: sounds like sensitivity towards others'feelings isn't their strong suit and they might just get defensive.
But it's wnat would make YOU feel better that counts here, I think, and if you would feel more satisfied going in person and saying something, do it!
I'm sorry this happened to you.
libby
This kind of thing always hurts more when it comes from another minority, doesn't it? Shouldn't empathy be a natural reaction when interacting with others in a similar situation?
I'm a Gay man and I'm always horrified at the racism (to say nothing of agism, socio-economic bias, and more) within the Gay community. I would think that whatever hurt or injustices one has suffered growing up would make for a more open and respectful nature, but it doesn't always seem to be the case.
The drag tradition of "reading" people--putting them down, essentially--is no exucse for the hostess's behavior and I think you reacted in the best and most dignified way in a rotten situation. I'm sorry you had to deal with this.
Mark McVeigh
Sorry you had to experience such a frustrating, offensive and downright disturbing incident. I think you did the right thing by walking out; this wasn't passive at all. Further escalating the exchange by trying to drum some sense into this obviously ignorant person who suffers from her own issues of self-loathing, etc., would have been a waste of your time and energy. I am Asian, married to a white man, and sometimes we get weird looks from people, but no one has EVER had the balls to say something rude like this to our faces. I was seething with the reference to passive Asian women. In my foolish naivite I had assumed such stereotypes were a thing of the past. I wonder if the manager/owner of this establishment knows that this particular employee is treating customers/guests with such obvious rudeness (continuing to act out even after you pointedly said you were offended by these remarks)? Maybe a phone call or letter wouldn't hurt, just to let them know you won't be returning or recommending this place to your friends.
Oh. Alvina. Experiencing this with you makes me weary, and worried for the next generation. I guess all we can do is keep putting stories out there that might help change this kind of craziness.
I am so sorry that this happened. I can only imagine how upset and frustrating this must have been.
Wow, I would have been offended in your shoes, as well, but probably wouldn't have done more than exactly what you did. I might have thought of a great comeback two days later (or wish I had one), but either way, you did the right thing to walk out.
But if you still feel upset about it in a couple days, consider writing a note to the manager expressing your disappointment in the way you were treated, noting especially how that affected whether you'll patronize the place. Sometimes hitting people in the pocketbook can be the most effective.
What a miserable experience, Alvina. I don't know what else you could have done. It sounds like you handled it the best you could. But it makes me wonder what all the other people around you were doing -- your friends as well as other patrons. Why weren't others just as offended? Why didn't more people -- not just the "victim" and her friends -- walk out or call this person on her behavior? If they didn't, that makes me just as sad as the fact that this happened at all.
You know, Libby's comment has really given me food for thought. I have a certain philosophy about what instances/situations involving ignorance are worth my time and energy, and which ones aren't. Mostly, this works for me, but there's one incident that really put that philosophy to the test a couple years ago. The fact I still think about it (and it still has the power to make me angry)--does that mean I should have said something/caused a scene that day after all?
Probably?
I wonder. It may not entirely be too late.
r
Okay, this post made me laugh out loud and then get mad. I would have been seething as well, the most I probably would've done is yell, I find that offensive or maybe, you damn racist! What makes it more frustrating is the fact that it was a bit, a little routine, and when there is an audience that's probably laughing along, it's hard to speak up. You did right by leaving, I hope others noticed and felt bad for laughing.
What happened to you and your friends is as appalling
and in as poor taste as
that Michael Richards 'n' word incident at the Comedy Club in L.A.
where those insulted left. I would
have left too.
I don't know why this is so upsetting. When I first heard this years ago I knew a white man who only dated Asian women. He also had a blond flip of hair in the front (don't know if there's a name for those) and was very fashion conscious. Guess who was in the closet? I've since known of a couple more gay men who say they've done this in the past.
"And the Asian girl is happy with it because she gets to say, 'Look at me, I'm with a white guy!'"
Also pretty true. This is why all the gay men that do this are white gay men. Non-Asian women wouldn't stick around. If you don't think Asian women would be okay to just have any white guy you must not read the personals.
Wow, Wu-King, I assume by your name that you're Asian, which makes what you're saying even more shocking. I'm going to assume that you are just trying to get a rise out of me, and don't truly mean it when you say you don't understand why I found this so upsetting. But feel free to respond if you want to discuss. My mother sent me an email about this saying, "For those people who are ignorant and racist you are wasting your time to argue with them. Actually your 'paying attention' to her is adding the "fuel" to her argument." But I'd like to believe that people aren't all so closed-minded as to be open to hearing and processing other people's points of view.
the hostess is an ass. You have every right to be upset with her, who was rude and obnoxious.
That being said, I think there is some truth to what she said. Some White gay men do like hooking up with Asian women. In some circles, it is a well-known fact. Someone actually wrote a book titled: "last stop", which alludes to this phenomenon. There was even a TV character in "twin peak" (or "thirty something"?) who dated a Asian girl so that he could hide from his parents . As for some Asian girls prefer White men, it is truth also. I don't know why it is that. Maybe it is the same reason why some black men prefer white women, and most professional gay black men prefer white men. Whatever the reasons are, I don't have problem with it. It's a free society. Whatever makes them happy.
i let you in a secret. many gay white men are under the impression that asian women are docile and naive. when they are with a white guy, they are very trusting, thinking their white guy is not cheating on her. its good when you are screwing around with other guys. whereas white and black, even hispanic females always think you are playing around even when you are not.
Wow. For all of you who made it here from www.racialicious.com, welcome. I guess I should check my site meter more often.
I am well aware of the white guy asian girl thing--I've dated men who I have later found to have Asian fetishes. I'm now hyperaware of what it looks like when I date non-Asians, and not that it matters, but I've dated the same number of asians and caucausians, as well as had relationships with blacks and latinos along the way. But I think it's a shame that if I end up with a white guy, some people will always think that it's because I'm one of "those Asians who likes white guys." I know they exist, just as anyone has their preferences for what a person looks like physically (okay, okay, I know it sometimes goes beyond that), but of course it's not like that for everyone. And of course that's the frustration with stereotypes. I couldn't believe that the hostess was saying all of this period, but also saying it all in my face. She was basically telling me that I should doubt the sexuality of any guy I'm with, that I'm passive, that I prefer to be with white men.
Most people I've told this story to hadn't heard the gay man asian woman thing before. I've since found out that apparently Asian women are the "last stop" for gay men because apparently we have "boyish figures." *sigh*
Well, I can only hope this isn't something that's very common.
Thanks, everyone, for your comments.
As a man who has dated Asian women I would dismiss this urban legend as baseless...if I had not been hit on by another 'rice king'I would have had no reason to challenge this view...as a consequence I am open to the possibility that there may be something there for certain men, the question is why.
I know how irritating this was for you, but I find the commentary extemely interesting.
I think you did the best thing. Reacting to it would have been what she wanted. It sounds like she's a professional aggravator so your best move to aggravate her back by not giving in and walking away.
So, if this is true, then every US serviceman who came home from Korea, Japan or elsewhere in Asia with an asian wife or girlfriend is a closeted homosexual? This sounds like desperate propaganda put out by fat, fed up American chicks. Maybe once they all stop watching Oprah we'll start to date them again.
So your blog sparked this huge discussion at our dinner party Tuesday night--completely unprompted by me (except in so far as I linked to your post originally). We had good representation on all fronts, maybe 15 people, and no one had heard this theory before, nor could anyone make sense of it. Two of our party had actually read and enjoyed Middlesex (they loved it) but did not remember that from it at all.
Then, the next night, I'm hanging out with my cousin when another friend walks in, and one of the first things out of her mouth (in the context of a talking about whether a guy she likes might be gay) is, "Well, you know, Asian women are the 'gateway!'"
I was like, "Whoa, whoa, WHOA! You've heard this?? Since when?"
Since only a few months ago, and she admitted she couldn't think of any real-life examples and it made no sense to her, either. But she did use the phrase "boyish figure" (which she does not have, and she's Asian, so this theory gives her no "hope" with the guy, anyway, haha) and "last stop to being gay," so she had heard the theory in its entirety.
What is this??
I'm sorry but I have to agree with the Middlesex passage. Why would a guy constantly date women who have bodies of 12 year old boys?
Think about it.
but it's true.
a lot of gay white guys go thru the asian girl phase before coming out. ask a bunch if they went throught the asian girl phase. don't think it's racism or anything else if you don't ask around. or are you afraid of what they'll say?
I think, bigger picture, there is a crisis in male heterosexual identity leaving it open to attack from all sides. Without strong examples of a "mans man" for straight guys to follow out there, the weird witch-hunt for closeted gay men goes unchecked. Point to any male role model and there's been a rumor or joke that "he's gay" - from the president, down to actors, sports figures, and business tycoons. It's now practically impossible to live in the modern world as a guy without an onslought of "maybe you're gay" rules of thumb levied as a sort of dis.
As examples I list the following witch-hunt assumptions usually said in jest with just a hint of "its funny cuz its true" wink and nod:
1. Date a submissive girl? Maybe you don't want her to object to your "secret". You might be gay.
2. Like to smoke? you like putting phallic things in your mouth. you might be gay.
3. like to play sports? you like rolling around with other men. you might be gay.
4. Like to watch football? you like watching men in tight pants rolling around in the grass. you might be gay.
5. Like to go to the gym? You're into getting buff with other men. you might be gay.
6. Like fashion? follow mens magazines suggestions of what to wear? if you are too up to date on fashion - you might be gay.
7. Creative? Sensitive? you might be gay.
8. Dislike gay people? or make a disparaging remark about gays? you might be gay.
9. Buy "product" for your skin, hair, or body? dude, that's metrosexual, and practically gay.
I swear, its practically a comedy routine - the next "you might be a redneck if..."
For the record, having a big belt buckle does not, in fact, make you a red-neck. And dating an asian woman does not, in fact, make you gay. Being born gay makes you gay. Getting turned on by guys makes you gay.
Getting turned on by girls (no matter what the race) is not gay. Sorry gay trannies in New York City. We know your agenda is to hope all men like "chicks with dicks" but not all of us do. Believe it or not, we can be straight too.
Let's pick apart the situation, instead of assuming the high ground. There are several things being said at once.
First, there is an aesthetic metric, whatever the source, biological, sociological, a mixture, etc, that allows us to identify certain features as masculine or feminine. Regardless of where it comes from, we are able to instantly identify clearly feminine or clearly masculine features in another person.
Given that, it is on average the case that the *absolute* sexual dimorphism among Asians is less pronounced than it is in most other groups.
That isn't to say that Asian women are masculine in appearance (which is for instance the case among the stocky Germanic women) or that Asian men are feminine in appearance. It simply speaks about the degree to which feminine features are expressed in Asian women, and similarly, the degree to which masculine features are expressed in Asian men. And what it says is that on an absolute scale, Asian women are on average not particularly feminine in appearance, while Asian men are on average not particularly masculine in appearance. In other words, both sexes deviate little from an androgynous center.
The claim being made is that men who are gay, one's who are either not consciously aware of it, or not out of the closet about it yet, look to Asian women as a compromise between internal psychological attraction, and an external social pressure to be heterosexual.
Whether the claim about gay men is true or not is a different question from whether Asians are generally androgynous (i.e. possessing sexually ambiguous features). One could argue that gay men should rather be dating a Helga from Weisbaden, or an Astride from Stockholm than a women from Beijing or Tokyo if that were the case. But if closeted gay men are indeed seeking out Asian women, then one must ask the question of whether gay men are after masculinity, or androgyny. Think about it. How many gay men that you know are particularly masculine?
Hello,
Very interesting discussion!!
I think i actually fall in the doubting category and i am now dating a asian woman. I feel a bit confused sometimes, and can both play the active (manly) role and the more passive (womanly) role.
I dated gay men aswel, but feel more confortable with (asian) woman.
gr,
Niek
Are you mad because the hostess is Black? I have heard this before from White gay men,so it's nothing new.I find it funny how Asians get angry when a non-White person makes a comment.Would you feel differently if the hostess was White?
Well, I tend to feel that minorities should be more empathetic and sympathetic to stereotypes, racism, and prejudice of other minorities, so that's why it bothered me a little more that it was a black, gay hostess who made the comment, but I still would have been really pissed if it came from someone white. Nothing funny about it.
I have no idea as to how I found your blog and I hope it is not to late.
I have to say that yes it is disturbing to have another minority make such a comment. However, I notice that often certain elasticities tend to hold their own bias and treat other minorities as if they aren't humans with feelings. I know because I am a woman of color but often I look a little "foreign" to other blacks. I have had similar incidents.
The stereotype you mentioned is one of which I have never heard. Yet, I think her audacity was much more jealousy as opposed to anything else. Why else would she pretend to have recognized your boyfriend and then throw a horrible stereotype about Asian women in your face?
In my opinion, you should take it as a compliment because you clearly have something she desires. Whether it is your boyfriend, or your beauty, something disturbed her.
You did the right thing by walking away, as opposed to stooping to her level.
Hey Al! I rediscovered this old post of yours through the link on your most recently "10 years" post. It made me remember something I've been meaning to share with you but kept forgetting - I have a friend in Beijing who's white and lesbian, and I was talking about the Middlesex passage with her one time & she replied that before she came out she only dated Asian guys. Her explanation was that when you're still in denial about your sexuality, you start making up explanations like, "Oh, it's not that I'm not into guys...I'm just not into *white* guys." So then you only date, say, Asian guys, and then something still doesn't feel right & eventually you hopefully realize the truth. Anyway, I thought that was a pretty interesting explanation for this whole phenomenon.
I have heard a lot about Asian girl/White guy stuff. I didn't know that Asian women would go so low to be with a white guy? Marrying a gay? I thought the lowest they could go is marrying a old white guy, needless to say a wealthy one. I know it is a social status for them being with a white guy. They look down on other Asians and appear arrogantly proud that they have achieved something in their life that others can't.
Need proof, just checkout the "Casual Encounters" section, and almost every single Asian whore there wants only "wealthy" old white guy, if not, just white as their first preference This is a prostitute for Christ sake.
It is not just Asians, even East Indians girls are equally screwed up. I have never heard them marrying gay or older white guy but, most of them only want white partner, if not, a (really, really) wealthy Indian guy.
hi, actually did a search on this topic and found your blog! actually, you should be aware that what you experiences is to be EXPECTED at Lucky Cheng's! it's a drag bar and everyone will be ridiculed with gay jokes and innuendos. that's the whole point of going there! the hostess was likely doing this as part of her routine. i was subjected to all sorts of abuse when i was given a "surprise" birthday party there. would not be my choice of venue haha.
so i was trying to understand why there's this concept of asian women as the gateway, since to be frank almost all the non-asian dudes i know with yellow fever are plenty hetero and horny (addicted to yellow flesh). funny thing is some of them particularly like the "mean asian" look, like the ones with particularly sharp eyes. i guess it looks more exotic.
i did once meet a guy who was dating a japanese girl. the guy was obviously closet gay. i asked the girl some time after the break up and she seemed clueless at the possibility. how is this possible? well, i think that is in fact the reason ... asian girls give cover.
mind you, not ALL asian girls give cover. some will call out a dude who is obviously not showing much in the arousal department. but enough asian girls are sort of either not as sexual or somewhat sheltered.
so here is my hypothesis.
a sheltered girl who has not been given good sex may not realize that she's missing out and so may not seek it out. so if the guy ain't giving it, she's not going to be asking why or demanding it etc. but on the other hand, the gay dude can appreciate the girl as a buddy, since they can shop together etc. and do whatever gay dudes might be into that can be shared interests with a girl. so the closeted gay dude is hoping by suppressing his own sexual drive in a largely platonic relationship that has the outward label of "boyfriend - girlfriend", he can maybe become straight. well, that's probably not going to work. it's just that the sheltered asian girls will give the dude less hassle about sex and is perfectly okay with the shopping and hanging out thing. i think other ethnicities may have a smaller population of sheltered girls so that the sex issue would become a front and center point fairly quickly (like within a few weeks at the latest). i know asian girls who are in largely sexless relationships for a LONG time haha. well, that's not a stereotype though b/c i'm talking about sheltered asian girls. once an asian girl has bitten the fruit though, watch out! and she's definitely no longer going to be suitable gay cover.
btw, i don't buy this "asian girls look like boys" idea. hello, asian girls got a vagina like all other women. they all got XX chromosomes and more estrogen than testosterone. i don't think a gay guy will find an asian woman any more attractive than any other woman, no matter how flat or tomboyish she might be. besides, asian women are in fact among the most feminine of women, in my opinion. it's just that the sheltered ones are much less pushy and not challenging a guy on his masculinity.
and yes, some if not many asian women are proud to be with a white guy. but then again, some are proud to be with a black guy, just like some asian guys are proud to be with a white girl. btw, i like my girls asian best, and i like them after they've tasted the fruit. they're more fun that way.
hi, actually did a search on this topic and found your blog! actually, you should be aware that what you experiences is to be EXPECTED at Lucky Cheng's! it's a drag bar and everyone will be ridiculed with gay jokes and innuendos. that's the whole point of going there! the hostess was likely doing this as part of her routine. i was subjected to all sorts of abuse when i was given a "surprise" birthday party there. would not be my choice of venue haha.
so i was trying to understand why there's this concept of asian women as the gateway, since to be frank almost all the non-asian dudes i know with yellow fever are plenty hetero and horny (addicted to yellow flesh). funny thing is some of them particularly like the "mean asian" look, like the ones with particularly sharp eyes. i guess it looks more exotic.
i did once meet a guy who was dating a japanese girl. the guy was obviously closet gay. i asked the girl some time after the break up and she seemed clueless at the possibility. how is this possible? well, i think that is in fact the reason ... asian girls give cover.
mind you, not ALL asian girls give cover. some will call out a dude who is obviously not showing much in the arousal department. but enough asian girls are sort of either not as sexual or somewhat sheltered.
(cont'd)
(cont'd)
so here is my hypothesis.
a sheltered girl who has not been given good sex may not realize that she's missing out and so may not seek it out. so if the guy ain't giving it, she's not going to be asking why or demanding it etc. but on the other hand, the gay dude can appreciate the girl as a buddy, since they can shop together etc. and do whatever gay dudes might be into that can be shared interests with a girl. so the closeted gay dude is hoping by suppressing his own sexual drive in a largely platonic relationship that has the outward label of "boyfriend - girlfriend", he can maybe become straight. well, that's probably not going to work. it's just that the sheltered asian girls will give the dude less hassle about sex and is perfectly okay with the shopping and hanging out thing. i think other ethnicities may have a smaller population of sheltered girls so that the sex issue would become a front and center point fairly quickly (like within a few weeks at the latest). i know asian girls who are in largely sexless relationships for a LONG time haha. well, that's not a stereotype though b/c i'm talking about sheltered asian girls. once an asian girl has bitten the fruit though, watch out! and she's definitely no longer going to be suitable gay cover.
btw, i don't buy this "asian girls look like boys" idea. hello, asian girls got a vagina like all other women. they all got XX chromosomes and more estrogen than testosterone. i don't think a gay guy will find an asian woman any more attractive than any other woman, no matter how flat or tomboyish she might be. besides, asian women are in fact among the most feminine of women, in my opinion. it's just that the sheltered ones are much less pushy and not challenging a guy on his masculinity.
and yes, some if not many asian women are proud to be with a white guy. but then again, some are proud to be with a black guy, just like some asian guys are proud to be with a white girl. btw, i like my girls asian best, and i like them after they've tasted the fruit. they're more fun that way.
I was searching this topic: why gay men in the closet usually dates Asian women? When I've found this blog and I would like to contribute my own observation and experience with this matter. I know several gay friends who dated Asian women and even married them, and their marriages ended in divorce. I myself was attracted by Asian women just because I felt that they were less aggressive sexually, and also because I found them exotic. I think that more scientific research should be done on this matter to find out the many reasons of this phenomenon and also to help Asian women to not fall prey and used by gay men who want to cover up their sexuality.
Um, I think the doubt was planted. Sucks to be in your shoes.
I never heard about this one. It's so strange and very annoying! If I'm in your situation I will do the same thing. I don't like people who are racist!
Gay men especially those that run around in drag and are nasty to women have just one main complex--that they will NEVER be real women and will never even remotely look like a woman unless they grew up in Thailand and got sex changr treatments before puberty.
The black ladyboy who insilted you just hate Asian women because he will never look as feminine as one!
Unfortunately, I would have to say this is turns out to be true more often than not. I don't think it's at all in the vein of racism or anything like that. I don't think it's meant to be offensive (although I understand completely why it would be offensive).
I think gay white men date or marry Asian women (women from Asia, not Asian American women) because these women come from a more submissive culture. So, they are more likely to be naive and trusting and will not suspect that their boyfriend or husband is gay.
Also, and THIS I find racist, is the whole "exoticification" of Asian women which infuriates me to no end. So, a gay white dude who lands an Asian girlfriend thinks he's throwing people off his trail by having an exotic female on his arm that is, again another stereotype, that Asian women are more into sex. It's all so stupid.
However, like I said, it unfortunately, turns out to be true more often than not.
I wish these guys could find the courage to come out and not use women. It's actually very misogynistic for men who supposedly are the BFFs of so many straight women.
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